Curse

Trevor Reznik · Jan 05, 2007, 07:39 PM // 19:39

As many of you are undoubtedly aware, Sealed Play has gained significant popularity in the past few months in Guild Wars. Sealed Play is a method of restricting the total skills you can select from to a certain deck size, then building a viable team from those skills. The skills are determined at random, and players then select a subset of those skills with which to make their build. For more information, check Guild Wars’ discussion of it at http://www.guildwars.com/competitive/sealedplay/ , as well as the SoF site which contains a build generator at http://sof-guild.com/index.php?Page=cards .

The major advantages to Sealed Play are that it 1) allows for creative buildmaking, 2) teaches players how to appreciate skills not normally run, and 3) helps newer players by keeping them from being overwhelmed by the sheer number of skills available. However, the one downside to Sealed Play is that so far it has been focused solely on PvP. Yet the system would also work quite well in PvE. One of the major flaws in PvE right now is the increased reliance on cookie cutter builds, where people are concerned only with what the community deems to work ‘best.’ Instead of experimenting with builds, players end up running the same skillbar over and over, as once something is found to work reasonably well, it keeps working. In fact, finding a useful skillbar discourages further experimentation. Yet this is exactly where Sealed Play can come to the rescue. By voluntarily limiting their skill selection to a randomized deck, players can significantly enhance their PvE enjoyment, for the reasons listed above.

The foremost factor is that Sealed Play facilitates creative buildmaking. By choosing from a randomized deck, players will have to come up with new and previously unthought of combinations of skills to achieve their goals. While it is true that these skills and combinations are available without a restriction on deck size, it is simply too easy to fall into the trap of repetitive build making. By restricting the total skills available, players are effectively forced into new builds. Furthermore, the skill deck can be changed in size and rerandomized at any time a player wishes, allowing for no PvE experience to be repeated. This will allow old, somewhat stale content to be reinvigorated, as fighting the same monsters will now occur completely differently with new skills at your disposal.

Furthermore, Sealed Play teaches players to appreciate skills widely considered to be ‘underpowered’ or ‘bad.’ Many skills considered underpowered are in fact not, but are merely waiting for the opportunity to shine. Moreover, new and unexpected combinations of skills can arise, and may in fact be more powerful than what the community believes to be the best skills. Even if the skills do not end up being as powerful as could be hoped, simply using them will be beneficial. Players will learn to appreciate and understand each individual skill and how it actually plays out in combat, rather than merely reading the skill description and disregarding it.

Finally, Sealed Play helps newer players create builds by keeping them from being overwhelmed by too many choices. A new player is almost certainly unable to create a coherent build from the close to twelve hundred skills that Guild Wars currently offers. Yet the same player could well create a coherent build from a randomized deck that contains one hundred skills. As the player makes new builds and progresses through Sealed Play, the player will be able to create more complex and thorough builds.

While there are many advantages to Sealed Play in PvE, there are some drawbacks. The major drawbacks are 1) skill availability for the eight players, and 2) convincing others to adhere to the builds. However, skill availability problems are largely offset by heroes. After successfully completing chapter 3 on a character, it should be relatively simple to set up four characters (you + the three heroes). With the addition of one other person, you should be able to play most setups. Furthermore, convincing others to play Sealed Play in the beginning will be daunting. Yet the sheer fun of creating builds and playing them will likely lead to it becoming quickly accepted by the community, and thus make this problem moot.

Finally, it must be noted that this system is entirely voluntary. Also, the deck generators are flexible enough to allow for restricting of generated decks to what players are able to use.

Therefore, for the foregoing reasons, Sealed Play should be used in PvE.

Clerihew · Jan 05, 2007, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Hmmmmm. This sounds interesting. I haven't actually heard about it before but then I am mostly PvE.

manitoba1073 · Jan 05, 2007, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Sorry dont like this idea, sounds to familiar with your delete all skills list. There isnt nothing creative when being limited to a few set of skills. If you want people to be creative with builds you dont limit them to a small fractions of skills.

Now dont get me wrong, It could be fun for some to limit themselves in this way to play, but not for me.

Grasping Darkness · Jan 05, 2007, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

There >isnt nothing< creative when being limited to a few set of skills.

so you mean there is?

Vinraith · Jan 05, 2007, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Actually I think this is a pretty cool idea, though I don't know how best to implement it in a PvE setting. Still, if a practical (and obviously optional) means of including some PvE sealed play in GW were suggested I'd certainly support it.

Clerihew · Jan 05, 2007, 08:25 PM // 20:25

I didn't agree with the skill deletion idea either but I find this one more viable as it would be voluntary. Might be interesting for people looking for a challenge.

Sli Ander · Jan 05, 2007, 08:49 PM // 20:49

It would definitely be an interesting challenge, but it would definitely have to be voluntary. The one thing about Pvp sealed deck is that both teams are playing under the same rules. In pve, what happens if you're going into an enchant strip heavy area with nothing but enchants? I know the odds are pretty slim, but its a lot harder to make a build viable when you're playing against a team with none of the same disadvantages.

That being said, its a good idea for those that enjoy the challenge, but don't want to turn to sealed deck pvp.

But that's just my two cents

Guillaume De Sonoma · Jan 05, 2007, 08:56 PM // 20:56

The only guild wars I play now is sealed deck games when I am lucky to get the chance, but sealed deck games are the most fun I have had in over half a year of playing guildwars. Try it in PvE, it is more fun than you will expect.

DeanBB · Jan 05, 2007, 09:11 PM // 21:11

So how would this actually work? At character creation do you select "sealed deck" or "open deck" and thus are restricted to a set of skills throughout? If not, when would it be in effect? How would you play with others participating in a sealed deck, adding a Sealed server like the International?

How random are the skill selections? With so many skills out there and so many varieties of basic builds:

warrior: hammer, sword, axe, tactics
ranger: archer, interruptor, beastmaster, trapper
elementalist: air, earth, fire, water
etc

would there be enough skills to make a character of your choosing or would you be limited to one of those realms (sword, beast, fire)? If truly random rather than a bunch of different lists chosen and then a random list you could have a tough time making a viable build at all.

I just don't see this fitting into a wide open PvE world. PvP played in arenas between 2 teams can work, it is a limited and controlled environment and for a limited duration. I know I would grow tired of playing the same builds without much choice to play something else.

OP: Have you heard of games like Halo where everyone has the same "skills" and weapons? It is a very limited and balanced game, maybe it is more to your liking?

Vinraith · Jan 05, 2007, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillaume De Sonoma

The only guild wars I play now is sealed deck games when I am lucky to get the chance, but sealed deck games are the most fun I have had in over half a year of playing guildwars. Try it in PvE, it is more fun than you will expect.

What mechanism do you use to choose what skills to allow?

Jan 05, 2007, 11:05 PM // 23:05

if voluntary=i could care less

if mandatory= i vote no.

Brandon1107 · Jan 06, 2007, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Is there like an arena for this? Cause i really wanna try this. Sounds incredibly fun and challenging.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Jan 06, 2007, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Very simple to run:

1. Go here http://claire.dibarboure.free.fr/Gen...nerator&mode=0

2. Click Random Sealed Deck.

3. Change number of players to 4/6/8 whatever the situation calls for.

4. Hit generate sealed decks.

5. Reroll till you get a suitable deck and then get the seed number and share it to all your buddies. An example is 2067280. So then just open up the main page from step 1, do everything to step 3 and then at the bottom fill in the seed and generate the deck. The skills will be the same for everyone looking at it.

6. Once everyone is looking at this discuss build combinations, strategies, and other things. Get a build together and then enter the mission.

Usually you get to take 4 non-elite, primary profession wildcards, gift of health for a monk, diversion for a mesmer, etc. Each skill can only be used once unless it appears more than once in the draft. Resurrection Signet and Charm animal are free (given) to everyone, but sometimes apear in the skill pool.

Brandon1107 · Jan 06, 2007, 03:03 AM // 03:03

we should set up a tournie for this in an international District.

Bankai · Jan 06, 2007, 11:09 AM // 11:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon1107

we should set up a tournie for this in an international District.

If you're talking about pvp, I believe Black is already working on one. Not sure whether he's continuing with the idea.

If you're talking about pve, how could you set up a tourney in Pve?

Stupid Shizno · Jan 06, 2007, 11:13 AM // 11:13

there could be a core elite mission located at GtoB that when "enter mission" the outposts has a button called "generate sealed deck" once you from a group.

Superdarth · Jan 06, 2007, 12:23 PM // 12:23

Sounds useless tbh..its like a "make youre own build for dummies" from how you descibe it.

I prefer to make my own builds and being able to choose from ALL available skills.

Stupid Shizno · Jan 06, 2007, 01:32 PM // 13:32

its more for the challenge, which is why its pvp based. try beating some endgame missions with sealed play before we start critizing someones idea.

Bankai · Jan 06, 2007, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superdarth

Sounds useless tbh..its like a "make youre own build for dummies" from how you descibe it.

I prefer to make my own builds and being able to choose from ALL available skills.

No, it's build-making with an added strategic elements. This time, you can't choose the over-powered elites you always choose.

Don Zardeone · Jan 06, 2007, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Goethe: "In der Beschränkung findet sich erst der Meister"

The skilled players would probably be able to figure out a build while the beginners or noobs would mess up. Works for pvp... but pve?